Legacy models

[Lentin]

For the Legacy models there are four sizes, identified by the first letter.
There are also four numbers, 10, 12, 25 & 32.

1. Do those numbers identify the type of wood?
2. If so, is available any combination?
3. Is there any place in the web where you could read the sound characteristics derived from the type of wood?

Many thanks.

[frankhond]

1. 10=Mahogany/cedar, 12=Mahogany/spruce, 25=Rosewood/cedar, 32=Rosewood/spruce

2. Check the website under "guitars". All combinations are possible, some are better than others. Talk to JB, he can guide you.

3. Google "tonewood" and you will find at least 10 places (taylor, breedlove, several luthiers, forum entries, and wood distributors). But you will find that words are rarely enough to describe sound. Avalon has sound samples (check under guitars). Although imho they tend to show that the main parameter is the player...

Good luck in finding your guitar!

Mateusz

[singlereed]

There was an interview with Taylor Guitars in this month's Guitarist (possibly it was last month's....) in which they discuss the merits of various tonewoods.

[Lentin]

Thanks to both.
I will try to find those articles.
Regarding sound samples at Avalon site, they are very limited.

[mgrey]

Here's a quick little video about acoustic guitars and sound qualities. It is a very brief overview. He is using american guitars for examples, but he touches on cedar, spruce, and mahogany sound board qualities (and maybe Koa). Hope it helps...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNWl63e5lZw

[manonash]

Here's a quick little video about acoustic guitars and sound qualities. It is a very brief overview. He is using american guitars for examples, but he touches on cedar, spruce, and mahogany sound board qualities (and maybe Koa). Hope it helps...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNWl63e5lZw

That video is definitely a step in the right direction, but frustrating because, as in virtually all such comparisons that I've seen, the comparer jumps from apples to oranges and from there to olives. In this one he starts with an instructive head-to-head comparison of a cedar/hog Taylor GS to the same model in spruce/rosewood - from that you can learn something. But then he jumps to an all mahogany Martin dreadnaught - leaping across woods, maker/build/design, and shape -- three of his four primary determinants of sound. Then he bounds to an all-koa Martin OO. You just can't jump so far in one stride and still demonstrate anything meaningful.

Suppose, on the other hand, that you went from the head-to-head of the two Taylor GS's, to a head-to-head of the same wood combinations in a Taylor dreadnaught; then in a Taylor Grand Concert. Then you could jump to the nearest Martin equivalent, maybe an 000, same two woods. Then to the same guitar in all-Mahogany or all Koa. Work your way to some jumbos, and then leap across the pond to an Avalon L. You get the idea. Yes, it would be a two-hour video. So what? Does somebody think guitarists only have a 5-minute attention span for listening to guitars?? For my part, I'd watch such a two-hour video start-to-finish with rapt attention. Then I'd come back to it frequently. And obviously you could divide it into short chapters for easy reference.

Same comment goes for the sound samples on the Avalon site. Why not provide samples of the same guitar in two or three different wood combinations, with the same piece played by the same player through the same sound setup? Preferably on the same afternoon!

How about it, Avalon? Such a set of comparisons would be useful even to people looking at guitars from other makers. It would give them a reason to visit the Avalon site while doing their research. They might just decide to stay there!

For the comparison across manufacturers, we need somebody who works in a big guitar shop with a diverse inventory (which I don't, unfortunately). We're waiting for you!

[Dr.Dirk]

I have to agree, the youtube comparisons are almost worthless, although I think that video comparisons in general are not nearly as valuable as the real world for you have to play and feel the guitar to really appreciate it.

Nevertheless, it could be a hint for a lot of people which style of guitar suits them best, BUT as you mentioned it, the quality and methods used are so bad you better leave it. You would need a professional recording environment with the same room, same player, same tunes, same mics, same mic postions, same EQ settings (if any at all), same strings newly put on the guitars etc to get nearer to the point ...

As for the Avalon site I think it is far better than most of the other manufacturers as they provide some good sound samples which let you hear a little more of the differences and possibilities of the guitars. Still, I would suggest maybe even better recordings done in the same way in a one day session with a large variety of guitars, letting the talented Mr.Mark Lyttle play until his fingers bleed

As I am not based in Ireland for doing the recording work which would of course be essential in this case, I would feel honoured to provide my mastering studio setup for accurate mastering and encoding of the recordings. Just an

[Walesy]

This is a subject I'm very interested in. I have a Rosewood/Spruce L32 and I adore it, but I'm very tempted to 'upgrade' to a premier series - The problem I have is that I've no idea whether how the different woods will sound, and more importantly whether they'll sound 'better' than my L32?

As a side note, is there a reason why it's almost impossible to find any dealers who stock Avalon guitars? It would make life a lot easier if I was able to go somewhere to play a few guitars and pick what suits me best - but the Avalon workshop is a bit of a trek!

[manonash]

As a side note, is there a reason why it's almost impossible to find any dealers who stock Avalon guitars? It would make life a lot easier if I was able to go somewhere to play a few guitars and pick what suits me best - but the Avalon workshop is a bit of a trek!

Well, the silver lining there is that Avalons, at least in the United States, remain a heck of a bargain. If the brand were higher profile, no doubt the price would go up.

This is a subject I'm very interested in. I have a Rosewood/Spruce L32 and I adore it, but I'm very tempted to 'upgrade' to a premier series - The problem I have is that I've no idea whether how the different woods will sound, and more importantly whether they'll sound 'better' than my L32?

That could be tough, in any case, to figure out from a recording -- particularly one streamed over the internet. In my experience, the differences between guitars as you ascend the food chain gets more and more subtle.

I once asked a dealer, in reference to a Martin OM-42, whether you really got anything extra in terms of sound for the difference in price between that and, say, an OM-28, which sells for about half as much -- or was it just premium for the bling? He replied -- and it made sense to me -- that the makers reserve their best work and most special attention for the higher end models. So I think some of the price (20%?) is bling and better woods (90% prettier and 10% better sonically?); some is the personal attention of the luthier (30%?); and some (50%?) is just premium the maker knows they can get from those who want the very best, price not being the first concern. It's kind of like a progressive tax on the rich.

So I guess you buy what you can afford.

[Lentin]

My 2 cents.

When I got my first Avalon (L32) I had never heard about Avalon. I was there to buy a Martin (my dream since I was 17). I tested Martin, Gibson and some others, and Avalon. The sound, the bright, the tone, everything was special (to me) in the Avalon. And still is.
So, there are differences among different brands.
In October I bought my second Avalon. A800, Master Luthier. JB made possible (thanks again JB) some sample recordings for me.
I have to say they were not too useful.
When the guitar arrives, I played the 'old' L32 and the new A800. Absolutely different. The tone wood (and probably the luthier's hand) made the difference.
Today, I have played my A800 probably every day since then (around three months) and the result is:
1. The recording was not useful at all
2. The sound today is completely different from the sound I got the first day. Now, with only three months it sounds full. (I feel excited only imagining how it will sound in a couple of years)
3. The sound today has nothing to do with the sample recording, made with the guitar recently 'born'.
4. I also read a lot about tone woods thanks to some replies to my initial post. After reading them I was exactly in the same level of ignorance. (Why? Because I had never really heard those sounds the articles were trying to describe).

But when I'm really discovering how the sound of my guitar is, is in this days, when both are starting to know each other.

As a summary.
1. Sample recordings should be recorded with already 'opened' guitars
2. To serve only a a reference
3. I think price is important, even at high levels. I think my A800 is a better quality guitar than my L32, which could have nothing to do with which of them I like the most (I don't know if a L32 is high level. At least the price in Spain was real high level).

That's all, Folks
Regards