Avalon S101/E question

[NynkeD]

Hi all!

joined up today at the forum as I had a few questions about an Avalon Gold series S101 and thought this might be an appropriate place to ask?

So, I decided I "need" a new guitar and in my search for one that really suits me I've tried out quite a few by now. Last week I ran into a shop that had 40% discount on a few items of its stock, of which an Avalon S101/E. I was quite impressed with the sound, considering that I play different styles and use different techniques (not of a very high level btw ) and ofcourse like them all to sound good on my future guitar!

Now here it is. I got the impression that the guitar had been locked in the cabinet for quite a while, so that got me curious and in search for some background info. So far, not much luck at all!
Is anyone here maybe able to provide me with some info on this guitar?
For instance what it's made of, what kind of electronics it's equiped with? Just for personal curiosity, when was it possibly built? (very, very) maybe a few personal experiences?
The guitar had a red cedar top, wooden rozette and according to the sticker, was made in Avalon, UK. There was no EQ built in, but there was a small onboard pre-amp. I think the serial nr was A00425.

As I'm asking questions now, the only reason I didn't buy the guitar at that moment, was that despite of the suberb sound, it was too heavy for me to play. Eventhough it was well set-up. Dear old RSI on the left hand . Ofcourse this can be adjusted with lighter gauge strings (0.10 preferably) and a bit lighter action, but that will likely also affect the sound.. Anyone any experience with this? Any pitfalls I might be able to avoid?

So, quite a few questions for a newbie to ask!
Many (MANY!) thanks to anyone taking the effort to answering any of these!

Regards,
Nynke

[singlereed]

Hi there, I swapped the standard light gauge (.12) strings for extra light .11 on my Avalon S32 and I also took some of the relief out of the neck - making it a bit flatter. This gave an action I prefer as I had taken up playing again after a few years' rest and my fingers were not as strong as they had been. The neck is beautifully straight and the frets very even, so it was not a problem. It is a very responsive guitar and I am sure yours would be too, they make fantastic guitars at Avalon. The guitar shop should be able to advise you and will probably do the work for nothing if they want to sell the guitar.

[mutley2209]

welcome to the forum

[stevemac]

Hi Nynke - you are most welcome to the forum. Any Avalon 101 model will have a solid red cedar top and solid mahogany back and sides. The 'S' model refers to a concert size guitar. The only confusing part is that the serial number you gave references a D101/CE and not the S101/E - I think it's more than likely that the serial number is A00145 which is for an S101/E that was shipped to Holland in November 2002. Given that it's now almost 7 years old, it is probably in need of a good set-up which would quickly rectify the action and playability issues. The record shows that it was originally equipped with B-Band pickup ... and the guy that installed it had porridge for breakfast that day - JB's record keeping is meticulous!

[NynkeD]

Hi, thanks for the replies and the warm welcome!

The guitar shop indeed offered to do the adjustments; it's part of their service. However, they also did advice me not to straighten the neck as they thought it is set up quite perfect as it is. They are right ofcourse, but not for a girl with a bit of RSI (considering it as a double handicap in this case )
What I'm curious about, as you did exactly the adjustments I had in mind, is whether/how these affected the sound and response of your guitar?

I did manage to find some info on the materials, but any other (ie year of manufactor) would be very welcome as well!

regards,
Nynke

[stevemac]

Sounds like this guitar shop knows their stuff! They are right about the neck - too straight and there is a slight loss of tone - it's as if the sound loses its crispness and sparkle a bit. The guitar in question was built between September & November 2002 and made in Newtownards, N. Ireland.

[NynkeD]

Hi Nynke - you are most welcome to the forum. Any Avalon 101 model will have a solid red cedar top and solid mahogany back and sides. The 'S' model refers to a concert size guitar. The only confusing part is that the serial number you gave references a D101/CE and not the S101/E - I think it's more than likely that the serial number is A00145 which is for an S101/E that was shipped to Holland in November 2002. Given that it's now almost 7 years old, it is probably in need of a good set-up which would quickly rectify the action and playability issues. The record shows that it was originally equipped with B-Band pickup ... and the guy that installed it had porridge for breakfast that day - JB's record keeping is meticulous!

Hi Stevemac,
our posts seem to have crossed each other. Many thanks for the info!!
I always like to know what it is that I'm actually buying, especially when I'm about to spend some money! The serial nr was definately something with a 4 and 5, so A00145 is probably the one. My guess was that it might have been 2-3 yrs of age, but 7 yrs of cabinet life already..
I'm unfamiliar with B-Band pickups and have yet to try it amplified. But I do trust that these guitars are installed with "performable" pickups, so to say.
It is good to know however, that your employees have a good solid breakfast before working on the guitars

Cheers,
Nynke

[rocksteady]

Hey Stevemac, How are you. I have a question concerning the neck issue. I like a fast action neck as I play a lot of lead as well as finger picking and don't like to press too hard on the strings. Would a neck that is not perfectly straight have some intonation problems? and how does it affect the tone to hve the neck completely straight? I am very curious about this because I have straightened the neck of several guitars for the playability factor.
I am asking out of pure curiosity as I did not realize this affected tone.

[singlereed]

I would have thought any guitar, but especially an acoustic one, is built to have a degree of relief in the neck and the intonation should therefore be correct with the relief in place. The reason it's there is to allow the waves to develop along the strings and to ring out cleanly. With absolutely no relief at all, the guitar is likely to buzz, but is is all a matter of degrees. I like my necks almost flat with just the tiniest bit of relief, it suits my style and actually I quite like a little bit of snap to be there in the sound, but as Mr Avalon says, you will get a fuller sound with the relief that it was designed to have.

[NynkeD]

So....
today I actually bought the Avalon S101 (indeed serial nr A00145) I was previously referring to!
For me it was the last day to go to the shop while there was sale and decided to go for it.

Like stated before, I just love the sound of the guitar, but it plays incredibly heavy, for me nearly even impossible. I already let them swap the strings for 0.11 - something they were not too happy about considering they'd just put on new 0.12's . It did affect the sound quite a bit, but did unfortunately not as much to the playability as I'd hoped for.
I have to press REALLY hard to get a tone without either a buzz or it dying on me. It's really unforgivable on that. Apart from my technical skills, could that be due to the high frets? Or will it disappear with "project B" - the adjustments of the neck?
I'm supposed to get into contact with their guitar-mechanic this week to see what he can do.....fingers crossed

Patience for now, then

[singlereed]

Good point! I recently bought a second Avalon guitar - a A32 - secondhand and the action was very high indeed. I thought I'd have to file down the saddles but, as you say, when I removed them, there were wooden shims underneath and so I had those out and it made a big difference! It's still a little higher than ideal for me, but I'm going to press on to see how I get on with it and then probably put one gauge lighter strings on and maybe remove a little of the neck relief - as soon as I can get enough leverage on the allen wrench to make it shift .

[NynkeD]

Hi,

thanks for your replies and tips!
My Avalon was already (factory) equiped with an under the saddle pick-up, so I think I'm not likely to find wooden shims..?
However, the action is still quite too high for me - at the moment it really affects my playing and timing - so I think I'll opt for some neck adjustments anyway. I have an appointment with the "guitar-guy" this week and see what his ideas are.
I'll keep you posted!

However, here on the forums lies the opportunity for me to see what fellow-Avalon players have to say and what their experiences are with these things and guitars. Instead of someone paid by the guitar shop So, I'm reading your posts with great interest!

@singlereed, since you own 2 avalons: does your new A32 play considerably heavier/ different than your S32?
The thing that slightly worries me is that inspite of the high action- which I can handle for a few minutes - is that I have to press the strings so hard onto the fretboard itself to get a tone. My question to you would be whether that also changed on your guitar with lowering of the action?
I'm a very soft player, even use a soft pick, so it feels a bit strange to use so much force with the left hand right now.

Many thanks again!

[Ross A]

If you are finding the action too high, and there are no shims (it might still be worth checking even though there is a pickup installed), it might be worth giving this a try: -

Loosen the strings.

Remove the saddles.

Place the Saddles upright on a desk (as they would be sat in the bridge)

Take a pencil and draw a line around the base of the saddles.

Take a piece of sandpaper and rub the saddle against it until the pencil line disappears.

That should remove 0.8mm from the height of the saddles. If that's not enough do it again!

JB gave me these tips, so I can't take any credit!!

[singlereed]

That's how I'd do it. I'd just suggest that a good way to keep the bottom of the saddle flat is to sand it down on a Carborundum sharpening stone - this is hard and flat and so if you hold the saddle vertically against it, holding both ends and move it along the stone with a smooth action, you should keep the bottom of the saddle flat - especially important as you have a transducer underneath. Check you don't have any rough edges - these can be smoothed away with some grade fine wet & dry paper or on the smoother side of the stone. As was mentioned, a pencil line drawn with a rule will give you a guide as to how much you have taken off.

Re Q about the A32 - it was set up with a relatively high action and more neck relief than I like, as well as a set of strings on gauge heavier than I usually play. It sounds like an organ if you play it hard - phenomenal rich tone, volume and quality all in one. I am in the process of matching it to the way I play - the shims came out, the neck relief is a bit less and all I need is a set of extra light EXPs - nearly perfection.