bang = crack?

[chris c]

I've recently developed a nasty propensity for percussive techniques on the guitar... This involves, among other finish-unfriendly movements, banging the bass side of the top with the heel of my right hand. In loud passages, this banging can be pretty hard . I've got this idea from the late Eric Roche, who was a master in this kind of playing.
My question is (before it's too late!) : is it safe for the guitar to do this ? The Avalon seems sturdy enough, but isn't there a chance that the top will crack or braces come loose ? Did Eric's guitar have special reinforcements ?

[JB]

Eric's guitar had no special bracing and NO it's never safe to bang on an acoustic guitar.

Hit it too hard and you'll crack it ... hit it soft and you'll probably be ok.

How much force will crack the top or sides ? ... don't know but if you hear a cracking noise then congratulations you've have found the magic formula needed to break your soundboard.

[chris c]

Thanks JB. I guess I'd better look for a percussionist to play with . The cracking noise is definitely not the one I want to hear...

[Nige]

Quite interesting this. I recently attended a workshop and concert by Thomas Leeb and his technique features almost non stop percussive playing. His playing has a fantastic groove and he is so entertaining to wach,awsome is a word that springs to mind but his style certainly has consequences as he showed us workshop students a large crack in the top side of his guitar packed with glue, mind you he reckoned it sounded better since he cracked it!

[chris c]

I think I got interested in this for a simple reason : when you play solo fingerstyle, you try to play several instrument parts in one... but there's one missing, it's percussion. I just have this piece I talked about some time ago, "The discovery of Avalon" and there is a middle part that is faster with a lot of strumming. I wasn't really happy with it and thought some drum-like percussion would spice things up... but a cracked top is not a price I want to pay for some experimental beating on an unfinished piece ! So John, no it ain't so anymore ... thank JB for it... But I may find a softer version of Eric Roche's big bass thud

This reminds me of a concert of the Japanese player Isato Nakagawa in Belgium. He hits the top and sides on some of his pieces too, and told the audience that it's something he never does in Japan, because his wife might hear of it. He had smashed a top once and came home with a broken guitar. "Isato, stop this!" his wife said, "a guitar is very expensive!"
So from then on he does it only far away from home...

[johnblack]

I've been experiementing with some percussion peices, and i'm looking installing a pick up system that will allow me to amplify the percussion side whilst allow great control over the sound of the guitar. Does any one have any suggestion, i have looked at Roche's site but being completely novice at acoustic pickup systems any way failed to understand anything (apart from the fishermans rare earth). Any help?

[chris c]

My guitar is standard equipped with a Fishman Prefix stereo blender which combines an undersaddle transducer with an internal microphone. The microphone will effectively picks up percussions on the body.

A simpler version that doesn't require cutting a hole in the guitar's side for the preamp is the Fishman Ellipse blend. The preamp and gooseneck mic can be easily fixed on the inside of the soundhole rim.

I think many of the pros who do a lot of percussion often use soundboard transducers but I have no experience with these. Eric Roche had a rather complicated set up...

[JB]

Cool video and I like him .... raw and real

[chris c]

Great video ... a guitar player tends to forget he has feet too !

I wouldn't be too surprised if much of the tapping and banging that is done nowadays on guitars will sound out of date in a few years time. I like it, but only when it's in service of the piece, the melody and harmony (like with Eric Roche).