My A200CE has arrived...

[rdet]

Hello,

As I stated when I introduced myself a couple of weeks ago, I had played an A200CE at a local shop and fallen instantly in love. I then found another at Buffalo Brothers where I had bought a Larrivee L-19 7 years ago. This allowed me to take advantage of their 100% purchase price return policy so I ordered it and it arrived last weekend. The one in the local store is A200CE #327. The one I bought is A200CE #470.

The workmanship is excellent. It is well crafted of excellent materials and a pleasure to look at. It is loud and the differentiation between the strings is right there (for the most part). Through an amp the electronics work well with minimal feedback issues ( at least compared to the Larrivee ).

But, I must confess, the tone is very disappointing. It is thin, harsh and treble heavy up and down the fretboard. The strings do not blend well together like the one I played. I know this kind of thing can be mitigated as the guitar opens up but it is a shock what a difference between this instrument and the one at the local store.

While the one I played had consistent volume across all strings, the low E of the one I have is noticably quieter than the others making bass runs and alternate string plucking inconsistent and distracting.

The high E and B strings are so sensitive that I have to be careful when barreing or stretching to form chords involving only the middle strings because at times the complementary vibration of the E string in particular or a brushing of that string even when damped can be heard. Didn't hear that either on my old Larrivee or #327 and it is very distracting. The positive here is that I will be learning to play cleaner!

The top is also much different - the one I played was a tan, darker spruce while the one I purchased is very white. Don't think it has anything to do with the sound but it is very different and I must admit I like the darker wood myself.

To top it off, the guitar came with a buzz on the wound strings starting at the 2nd fret and going up to the 6th or 7th. This is a setup issue of course that should have been caught either at the factory or at Buffalo Brothers. Fixable to be sure but for a guitar of this quality, an unexpected annoyance and expense.

I went back today to play the local one just to make sure I wasn't fooling myself and I wasn't - from the first strum it drew me right back in. It is a very fine instrument indeed. If I had picked up the one at Buffalo Brothers, I would have put it down and moved on within minutes.

The bottom line is - these are totally different instruments! I have played many Taylors, Larrivees, Martins, etc. and of course there are differences from guitar to guitar, but I can't remember seeing two guitars of the same make and model built with the same materials in this class of hand-made, solid top, professional quality instruments be so different. I am very surprised.

It is a strong sounding instrument that will make me play better. And it will be an interesting challenge to learn how to play it to get the sounds I want. I am noticing it has many colors when played at different places with different attacks, etc. - something I noticed and liked with #327. And I look forward to it maturing and opening up.

But in answer to the thread about why Avalons don't get the respect they deserve, this wide difference among instruments of the same make and model and of the same materials could be a reason.

I hope my honesty hasn't offended. But I wanted to let you know.

Thank you,
Dick D.

[JB]

Thanks Dick for your input.

Altho' we put the same amount of expertise into all our guitars during construction it is "sometimes" nigh impossible to predict or even guess with any degree of accuracy how a finished guitar will sound with a given selection of choice timbers.

There are so many variables in "handmade" acoustic guitar building that can have a impact on the sound.
With this in mind, sometimes 2 guitars of the same model can sound very different, that is not the norm but it does happen

Add to this the maturing effect, some guitars can sound very "broke-in" straight away and seem to have a very mature sound right from the get-go while others take months or even years to reach a fully matured sound.

[rdet]

Thanks for your input JB. I've put a message up on the tech board. Played a good bit last night and the overriding issue is overactive, sympathetic harmonic overtones. I narrowed it down by playing a note and immediately taking my finger off the fretboard.

Along the 5th and 7th fret and to a lesser extent others that can produce harmonics, these sympathetic overtones are natural but many times on this guitar they are louder than the original note and sustain forever. I even got some of this magnitude on the A string! In particular, the high E and B 5th fret produce very high pitched harmonics - not just the natural harmonic you can play from that string - that are very annoying.

So moving around the fretboard playing notes or strumming chords, sometimes you hear the harmonic along with the note and these and other harmonics build up, muddy the sound and give a distinct treble overcast that takes away the richness present in the other A200 I've played.

And this is playing unplugged mind you. Plugging it in actually helps as the pickup isn't picking up the harmonics jangling around inside the box.

As I mentioned on the tech board, it is so bad, members of my family upstairs came down to the living room to ask what was that sound the guitar is making? Ends up those harmonics are travelling farther than the string sound and cutting through the walls. And believe me, I've played other guitars in this setting for hours so they have had plenty of chances to hear this type of thing if it existed in other guitars I've had.

I like playing with the dynamics of the instrument while I play. With this guitar, I can't even play softly for very long before a build up of harmonics has the thing ringing like crazy underneath the music.

Again, not to take away from the craftsmanship of the instrument - the other A200 I played is heavenly. Is there anything you or anyone on here could recommend to try?

Thanks!

[snakecraig]

Sounds like your neck is in need of a tweek...

Check out the neck and see if its correct... I recognize this problem and it can easily be fixed!
________
ipad guide

[rdet]

Sounds like your neck is in need of a tweek...

Check out the neck and see if its correct... I recognize this problem and it can easily be fixed!

Thanks - it certainly does and I hope the tone is helped as you suggest! I'll let you know.

[Dennis]

Interesting, for two reasons.

First, I can see what rdet is talking about. I traded in an old Takemine to get my Avalon A200CE, but it was a cheap G Series Takemine, and one that wasn't even a solid top - it was laminated all round, except the neck. But it sounded as warm as something made entirely out of rosewood or mahogany compared to my Avalon.

Don't get me wrong, I love playing my Avalon - the quality of the neck is far superior to the old Takemine, for one - but it seems like it'll take a while for the tone to reach the warmth of my old beast.

The second reason is the serial number. I bought my Avalon in Leicester in October last year and its serial number is 511, higher than rdet's who got his only a few weeks ago. Wonder why?

[rdet]

The second reason is the serial number. I bought my Avalon in Leicester in October last year and its serial number is 511, higher than rdet's who got his only a few weeks ago. Wonder why?

Hi Dennis,

Well, if I played that guitar at the store, I would have put it back in a NY minute. It was setup all wrong. Low at the nut, high at the saddle and very 'stiff' and 'thin' sounding. Hopefully, it will warm up over the next several months of play and the pros I took it to can get the setup right.

[crofty]

Hi Dick
This is an interesting thread.I tried a AS100 in a music shop here in Scotland where I live.I liked it a lot,the finish and particularly the sound and the action.I sold a couple of Lakewoods that I was,nt playing because I found the necks a bit to chunky.I ordered a A100 figuring that the gold series would be even better than the silver.I was,nt very
impressed with the sound when it came.The finish and the neck were
great but the sound did,nt match my Larrivees or the Lakewoods that I
had sold.I took the shim out from underneath the saddle and paid particular attention to keep the guitar tuned to concert pitch.It now
sounds a different guitar and it is my first choice for flatpicking,wide neck,lots of volume and a great clean bass.I went back to the shop and
the AS100 still sounds great.Could it be the different acoustics.I might just buy the AS100 as well.
Regards
Crofty

[Dennis]

Interesting, for two reasons.

First, I can see what rdet is talking about. I traded in an old Takemine to get my Avalon A200CE, but it was a cheap G Series Takemine, and one that wasn't even a solid top - it was laminated all round, except the neck. But it sounded as warm as something made entirely out of rosewood or mahogany compared to my Avalon.

Don't get me wrong, I love playing my Avalon - the quality of the neck is far superior to the old Takemine, for one - but it seems like it'll take a while for the tone to reach the warmth of my old beast.

Can I just retract that statement? Now that my Avalon has had 6 months to get used to its surroundings (isn't it amazing the way a guitar changes according to the room it's in?), it sounds exactly the way I want it to. It's really matured in just that short time and it has a real depth to it now that it didn't really have before.

How do I know the change has been so dramatic? Well a couple of months ago, I broke my thumb and spent 6 weeks in plaster, so I couldn't play my guitar at all. It was hell! Well, now that I'm back and using my guitar again, the change in tone is remarkable. And I love it! It's exactly what I'd hope I was buying. A friend who is a music teacher came round and had a play, too, and he thinks it's beautiful, so I know I'm right.

I can't imagine how much better it'll sound in a few years!

[JB]

Thanks for the comments Dennis, hopefully it'll just keep getting sweeter and sweeter.

[Mr. Pohl]

After a long lapse, I found myself returning to playing instead of just singing. I found that having to hand-mic my trusty old Harmony wasn't getting the song I wanted. I shopped around playing this and that before finding a store in Folsom, Ca. I told the guy that I was in the market for an acoustic guitar that was plumbed for electronics. I had about $1500 to spend. He pulled down a Guild from the wall and started walking away from me. I was distressed until I found that I was being led to a practice room to become familiar with my options. The Guild felt very light so I looked into the sound hole to check out the bracing. The salesman said, "Ohh! You're one of those." He brought in a Martin D-18 and after playing three chords and a riff I decided that Martins have a signature sound. Then he brought in the Avalon A200-CE #A00259. I was immediately struck by the high gloss finish and the choice of woods. The sound seemed to jump out of the guitar like it had been holding onto it long enough, needing only a touch to release it. The same mellow lows as the Martin, but crisper highs with great sustain throughout the range. I have never spent a more satifactory $2000. An instrument of the arts should be a work of art in itself, don't you think?

[bing4sons]

Congrats on discovering and buying the new Avalon. They are excellent guitars.

[Dennis]

The second reason is the serial number. I bought my Avalon in Leicester in October last year and its serial number is 511, higher than rdet's who got his only a few weeks ago. Wonder why?

Hi Dennis,

Well, if I played that guitar at the store, I would have put it back in a NY minute. It was setup all wrong. Low at the nut, high at the saddle and very 'stiff' and 'thin' sounding. Hopefully, it will warm up over the next several months of play and the pros I took it to can get the setup right.

So come on rdet - how's your Avalon now? Still disappointed or have you got it all sorted out now?

And another interesting serial number from Mr Pohl - his is even lower at number 259.

How is this?

[guitarist 4 christ]

DENNIS, REGARDING SERIAL NUMBERS, IT IS QUITE POSSIBLE THE LOWER SERIAL NUMBERED GUITARS HAVE BEEN SITTING ON THE SHELF FOR A LOT LONGER THAN THE ONE YOU BOUGHT, EVEN THOUGH YOU PURCHASED YOURS LONG BEFORE THEY GOT THEIRS BUT THAT IS JUST A GUESS, BUT SOMETHING TO PONDER

[JB]

That can to true but certainly not always the case, we stamp the neck block with it's serial number in the 2nd week of production but depending on popularity of models, and what we need to progress sooner a sound-box can stay in the factory longer.

So an earlier serial number can leave the factory later than a higher serial number ..... well, we are Irish afterall